VR: I’ve been saying my thoughts…never asked yours. What do you think?
RV: i am agnostic i want to believe but there is so much suffering around us that everything else seems not true. So i ask questions ;-).
I must add you digressed I never asked you to describe god. I asked who created god.
VR: Swami Chinmayananda himself was a non-believer. He went to the Himalayas to expose Swamis whom he considered as a burden on the society and who he thought lived like parasites.
Only a non-believer will question to that extent that he will not quit until he gets 100% clarity. Vivekananda was a non-believer too. He questioned Ramakrishna and tested his own guru in many different ways until he was convinced.
I believe we need to think from a non-believer’s point of view to get proper clarity of anything. Last year, I had been for a CHYK (Chinmaya Yuva Kendra) camp. The camp was on ‘My Karma’. There was a debate session which involved two teams – one supporting Destiny and the other supporting Self-Effort. The ones who believed in Destiny, believed in fate. The ones who believed in Self-Effort believed that everything was a result of our own self-effort. The whole debate brought so much clarity to all of our thinking (thanks to the Swamiji who confused us all the more by asking questions from a non-believer’s point of view). It is then I realised how important it is to think from a non-believer’s stand point to get full conviction.
The funny part in the debate was, it was won by a third team which believed that both Destiny and Self-Effort are there in our lives. They argued their points very well. They took all the good points from both the teams and made them their points. One of them was in 6th std and the other in 7th std. We elders were clean bowled in front of them.
But, ya, that camp gave a lot of answers to questions like… Why do good people suffer? Can we change our future? etc.
On your remark that I digressed when you asked about God…my answer is
I made it elaborate because if I directly make my point – Nobody created God. He was the Ultimate Cause to which there can be no other cause – i don’t know how much sense would it make to you? Hence I went talking on God.
RV: Ok. Let me rephrase it so you think God existed from the beginning and someone planted this idea in us, right? So the implantation of idea created god, for us and whoever did that created god. And it has to be a man because animals do not care or feel the need to thank anybody.
And yes, people who believed in self effort and destiny…true…both are important.
VR: How did this creation come into existence? How is it that such a beautiful universe was created with so much minuteness? All this is the result of just a big bang or just terming the whole creation as science, is hard to believe and does not satisfy the intellect. There has to be some Creator who is powerful than any of the things we see.
Among all the living creatures man being blessed with the highest intellect, was not satisfied by merely getting lost enjoying in this world by satisfying his senses. Thus, a few of the most observing & thinking kind of men of the yore questioned this and started enquiring. The Truth, not the idea but the Truth, that God exists was realised by few such men who lived more than an animalistic human life.
God Alone exists. There are no two – God and the World, but just One – God. He alone manifests in different forms.